Flying in Formation

The website Biblical Families has a forum full of positive discussions about polygamy.  This is a great place to hang out and get support if you’re interested in living this way.

Chris Nystrom (who occasionally comments on this blog) recently wrote a post in which he compares flying in formation to marriage (and by extension, to plural marriage).

His idea was too good not to share with my readers, so I have included it here in its entirety, with permission from the author.

I have long thought that flying in formation was a good metaphor for marriage.

Here are 8 specific points for you to consider:

1. How do they do it? The key is that there is one leader and the rest are followers. If there is no leader you are not flying in formation.

2. Due to advance communication everyone knows where they are going, but the leader leads and the followers have to keep a close eye on the leader.

3. The followers job is to position themselves correctly in relation to the leader.

4. The leader has to call the maneuvers so that the followers can expect the movements and react to them accordingly. They communicate constantly as needed.

5. There has to be at least two to fly in formation, but structurally you can add on more.

6. Not easily done. It takes intention and practice.

7. It is also mandatory for safety in aerial combat. Singles are picked off like sitting ducks.

8. You need someone to check your six. No individual has complete vision or situational awareness. But good teams are unbeatable in aerial combat.

When done well it is a beautiful thing. Formation flying is commonly seen at air shows for the appreciation of all.

Note: The differences between the original forum post and this version were made by Chris in preparing the post for the Biblical Families newsletter.

Pioneer Day

Happy Pioneer DayFrom its very beginnings, Mormonism seemed destined to attract ridicule and persecution of every variety, of every intensity, and from every direction —  be it religious, secular, or political.  Even Mormonism’s founder, Joseph Smith, noted about himself:

It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?

Whether you agree with the doctrines and practices of Joseph Smith and Mormonism (and there is much to disagree with no doubt – for many of them are strange, and even offensive), the horrible abuse and religious persecution of the Mormon people at the hands of their oppressors (which included not only private persons, and mobs, but also state and federal governments) was shocking, horrific, and is completely unparalleled in the history of the United States.

Since the very beginnings of Mormonism in the state of New York, they were often treated harshly by their neighbors.  This mistreatment, which involved everything from mistrust and slander to murder and rape, caused the body of the Church to move from one place to another—to Ohio, to Missouri, to Illinois, and finally on to the land that would become Utah.  In fact, murder of Mormons was still officially sanctioned by the state of Missouri until June of 1976.

Being abused and driven continually from place to place quickly becomes old, and can be tolerated for only so long.  In all these tribulations the Mormons had petitioned the government (both state and federal) several times to aid them in their plights.  Perhaps most famously President Van Buren is reported to have said, when asked for aid, “Gentlemen, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. … If I take up for you I shall lose the vote of Missouri.”  Oh, the politicians!

KOG flag

The first wagon company entered the Salt Lake Valley on July 24th of 1847.  Brigham Young stated then that if they would be left in peace for 10 years, they would ask nothing further of the government.  Ten years later to the day, on July 24th of 1857, the saints were celebrating Pioneer Day up Big Cottonwood Canyon at Silver Lake, with the Stars and Stripes flying in the breeze, when word came to the territory of Deseret that the United States was sending an army to crush a supposed Mormon rebellion.

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Of course the rumors of rebellion and lawlessness in the territory were exaggerated well beyond the point of lies, and were used as false pretense for military action.  Ultimately this proved very costly for the government, and embarrassing for President Buchanan (the Utah War is sometimes referred to as Buchanan’s Blunder).  The real reasons for sending a sizable chunk of the army into the western wilderness was all done for political reasons and had nothing to do with the disloyalty of the Mormon people (for they were not disloyal to the United States – and never have been).  Rather, the reasons had to do with the impending civil war (the massive military force, trudging across the plains at this critical time, left many federal arsenals and military stores unprotected in the South), and the recently adopted Republican Party platform (adopted at the GOP convention of 1856 in Philadelphia) to rid the US of:

“the twin relics of barbarism,

polygamy and slavery“.

After receiving the news about the approaching army Brigham Young told the people to finish their Pioneer Day celebrations, and then they began making plans and preparations.  The plan they decided on was to stall the army, thru bloodless guerrilla warfare, as long as possible from entering the territory (the stories of Lot Smith and Porter Rockwell are fascinating and entertaining, but sadly too long to relate here).  This was to buy them time to clear up the misunderstandings, misrepresentations, and outright lies that were circulating in the East about the Mormon people.  Ultimately, the plan was carried out in a brilliant manner, and was successful in its aims.

Here is what Brother Brigham had to say about the situation:

It is a pretty bold stand for this people to take, to say that they will not be controlled by the corrupt administrators of our General Government.  We will be controlled by them, if they will be controlled by the Constitution and laws; but they will not.  Many of them do not care any more about the Constitution and laws that they make than they do about the laws of any other nation.  That class [of people] trample the rights of the people under their feet, while there are so many who would like to honor them.  All we ever asked for is our Constitutional rights.  We wish the laws of our Government honored, and we have ever honored them; but they are trampled under foot by administrators.

And furthermore:

I do not lift my voice against the great and glorious Government guaranteed to every citizen by our Constitution, but against those corrupt administrators who trample the Constitution and just laws under their feet.  They care no more about them than they do about the Government of France, but they walk them under their feet with impunity.  And the most of the characters they have sent here as officers cared no more about the laws of our country and of this territory than they did about the laws of China, but walked them under their feet with all the recklessness of despots. – Millennial Star, No. 3, Vol. 20, pg. 33

So remember this Pioneer Day, that this day is about religious liberty as much as it is about settling a strange land and making the desert blossom as a rose.  I leave you with the inspiring words of Connor Boyack, who wrote a beautiful guest opinion for the Daily Herald (the original article can be found here).  His words are reproduced here in their entirety:

July 24 is Utah’s second summer celebration of independence. On this state holiday, we remember the pioneers who on this date in 1847 arrived in the Salt Lake Valley to settle the area.

Fleeing from a mob and exiting the borders of the American states, Brigham Young and his Mormon followers started a new society in the desert, independent from the government that had forsaken them. In a letter to the U.S. president summarizing their intent, Young declared:

“We would esteem a territorial government of our own as one of the richest boons of earth, and while we appreciate the Constitution of the United States as the most precious among the nations, we feel that we had rather retreat to the deserts, islands or mountain caves than consent to be ruled by governors and judges whose hands are drenched in the blood of innocence and virtue, who delight in injustice and oppression.”

There are many reasons for which the early Latter-day Saints were persecuted, religious discrimination and concerns about concentrated political power among them. Of course, polygamy also played a role; it was only a few years later that the Republican Party was founded, focused on the abolition of two “barbarisms”: slavery and polygamy.

The decades that followed saw increasing intervention into this polygamous lifestyle by federal agents enforcing newly enacted laws against what had by then become the territory of Utah. LDS Church leaders went underground to avoid prosecution, and Mormon culture became insular and to some degree anti-government, so much so that the “Mormon Creed” was born and widely used, even featured as art in one LDS temple.

That motto? “Mind your own business. Saints will observe this, others ought to.”

The rest is history, but forgotten history for many in Utah. Raids against and imprisonment of many of our ancestors is so far distant from today’s society that it doesn’t get much attention.

It should — if for no other reason than the fact that many plural families continue to live amongst us, practicing their faith and living as best as they can, branded as they are as felons by their own government. We can more appropriately honor Utah’s polygamist pioneers who stood up for what they believed in, on Pioneer Day and every day, by not perpetuating the same oppressive policies against which they protested.

We’re all aware of the examples of abuse, fraud, and outright perversion in some polygamous circles. This does not, however, justify widely branding a population to which so many of us have a close connection.

In other words, a few bad apples doesn’t mean the whole bunch should be tossed out. There are numerous examples of consenting adults and loving families creating a safe and supportive environment for their children and one another.

Utah’s celebration of Pioneer Day is inherently connected to polygamy; the day is a memorial of unfair persecution based on religious and cultural differences. For a modern society that claims to increasingly support diversity and inclusion, the continued persecution of the posterity of the very people for whom the holiday exists stands as a hypocritical anomaly worth pointing out.

A modern leader in the LDS Church had something to say about this:

“Our pioneer ancestors were driven from place to place by uninformed and intolerant neighbors. They experienced extraordinary hardship and persecution because they thought, acted, and believed differently from others. If our history teaches us nothing else, it should teach us to respect the rights of all people to peacefully coexist with one another.”

The very state government that has institutionalized this holiday, and that was created by those persecuted in part for their support of polygamy, now criminalizes this lifestyle as a felony. Separate laws allow for the prosecution of those actually guilty of a real crime — sexual abuse, fraud, neglect, etc. Going further to punish a consenting adult relationship is inherently unjust.

Yes, let’s celebrate Pioneer Day (or, for some, pie and beer day), but let’s take up the torch of the pioneers we celebrate by putting an end to the oppression from which they fled, and which many of their posterity are subjected to still.

Connor Boyack is president of Libertas Institute, a free market think tank in Lehi, and author of 14 books.

Happy Pioneer Day!

Not what social media would have you believe.

Hello, my name is Tianna Foster.

I am 20 years of age.

I live at home with my dad, my three amazing mothers and 20 going on 21 siblings, whom I adore!

I grew up in the red rock country, in a beautiful community surrounded by wonderful people, each with a different background.

I have heard many different assumptions about the life of a child with “polygamist parents.” I know that the sad truth is that in some cases those assumptions are true, but what I want you to understand is that the problems that are pointed out in the polygamist communities exist all throughout the world, they are not things caused by polygamy, they are caused by self-focused humans. They are human problems.

However my life as a child raised in a polygamist family was much different than what social media would have you believe.

I had a wonderful childhood filled with the outdoors, adventure after adventure, traveling, family, friends and more love than most people receive in a lifetime.

When I was young, (before I was old enough to know about what the world thought of us) all I knew was that I was the lucky kid who had a dad and two moms to cherish, support, and want me. (My third mother joined our family a year ago.)

I did not see problems in my parents relationships; they all loved each other very much!

Being an adult I now see that like any relationship there are struggles from time to time and there are misunderstandings, but show me any marriage that doesn’t have that.

The important thing is they work through them and don’t give up on each other.

I understand that when you see people such as Warren Jeffs it puts a bad taste in your mouth but just because there was a bad man who had more than one wife does not make every polygamist family bad.

To say that is like saying that because one dog bites you all dogs are wicked. It’s simply not true.

We are not brainwashed.

My parents love education and free thinking.

They have taught me to be full of questions and to observe all ways of living, to choose for myself what I believe and how I choose to live.

Never once have I been told to live that way simply because they do.

They’ve taught me to look at what each lifestyle produces and then to choose my path according to the outcome I desire.

Now I do not believe that plural marriage is for everyone. But this is America, “the land of the free.” Can we not be free to choose that way of life if we want it?

You take away our right to speak, our right to live and believe as we choose, then I ask you, what is so great about America?

If consenting adults choose to live that way why must they be persecuted?

I will fight against opposition!!

I will speak out for the ones who don’t have a voice.

And I will fight for our rights and for our freedom.

Can we please break down the walls that divide us?

We are families, not felons.

My thoughts on plural marriage:

Someone once asked me, “Why would you want to live plural marriage?”

Up to that point I had never really thought of why I would WANT to live the principle of plural marriage, so it caused me to reflect and to ask myself that very question. “Why?”
After thinking about it for some time I came to a conclusion that surprised me: I realized that I wanted to live plural marriage because it would bring out the worst in me.

I know you might be thinking, well why on earth would you want the worst in you brought out?

I’ll tell you…because only when the worst is brought out can I overcome it!

Sure I could live my whole life putting on the act of perfection, allowing people to believe that I’m just a saint of a person but in the eternal run what good would that truly do me?

If I do not face my insecurities and jealousies but instead I bury them, then I will go through life still carrying them. Closing your eyes to a problem may make it disappear temporarily, but as soon as you open your eyes it will still be there.

Face it, solve it, overcome it.

As Henry Drummond said, “This world is not a playground; it is a school room. Life is not a holiday but an education. And the one eternal question for us all is, how better can I love.”

Which brings us to love itself.

This small four letter word that means so much.

I believe that in order to know how better to love you must first understand love itself. I could go on about that but I will leave that topic for another time.

So for now ask yourself what is love? And, How better may I love God, others and myself?

If we go back to what Henry Drummond said and we believe that he is correct, that “life is a school room” then should we not take every opportunity to learn and grow?

At some point in our lives we will learn the simple things, the ABCs if you will, which are wonderful, but as we go through life we are meant to progress, to then take those ABCs and compile them into words, and then string those words into sentences and so on.
Moving from a kindergarten level on and on until you reach a college level.

Now if you want, you are free to choose to stay in kindergarten; however, if you want more you must be willing to apply yourself, take steps forward and go through tests that challenge your mind.

I believe that the same is true in every area of life.

I enjoy analogies so allow me to paint one up for you…we are, each of us these pieces of coal. God loves us just the way we are and if we choose to live our whole lives as the coal that we are that’s all right, but if we want more than that there are certain principles that we can choose to live by, which will push you to become something more.

It’s like asking God to place a mountain on your shoulders, while at the same time asking him to give the strength to withhold the weight.

It will be heavy and difficult but if we stay strong in the Lord then the very pressure that could crush us can also change us from coal to a diamond.

It is choosing to walk through the fire knowing that the purest of gold must first go through the hottest of fire before it can be refined.

I believe that the same goes for plural marriage, along with many other higher principles.

Marriage in my mind is choosing a companion to share in life’s journey with, having a partner to face the hard times with and to cherish the moments with, just choosing to do life together!

My dad has told me my whole life, “Marry your best friend.”

I plan on doing that. And your best friend should be the one who brings out the best in you.

If marriage is choosing a person who you love to share life with then plural marriage is just choose to share life with yet another person.

I once asked my Mom, “Why did you choose to live this way?”

She told me this: “Because your dad is such an amazing husband, father and friend! I wanted to be able to bless another woman with the blessing I have.”

My parents were happily married for eight years before ever even talking about the principle of plural marriage, and when they did it was my mother who brought it up.

She is a strong, kind, incredible woman!

As are each of my moms.

I aspire to be like them.

Seeing how happy and successful my parents are makes me want what they have.

There is a right and a wrong way to do everything.

I think that my parents have got something right that’s for sure!

I have many more thought but for now my time for writing is up.

My hope is that I have brought a new piece to the puzzle, given some new perspective, that I have shed some light and given some understanding.

I hope these thoughts and principles will bless your life!

Finally

About ten years ago, my husband and I bought our first house together.  While I lived in that house, I planted trees and gardens.  I bought furniture.  I hosted events.  I had a variety of houseguests.  I put up pictures and had pets and houseplants.  While I lived there I went from 1 child to 3 children and began homeschooling.  I had a variety of Church callings and a good selection of friends and friendly neighbors.  I was in living that house when my belief system about the LDS Church crumbled (although I stayed an active member for a number of years).  I also gave birth in one of the bedrooms upstairs.

In that same bedroom, my husband and I first discussed the possibility of his marrying my best friend Melissa.  (Short version: I could no longer ignore the spiritual experiences I was having regarding God’s will in the matter.  Joshua and I had never talked about it before, but I opened the conversation with: “So, Joshua, are you going to marry Melissa?”  His answer: “Well, I don’t know.”  My shocked reply: “What do you mean you don’t know?  I know!”  Two days later he had his first conversation with Melissa about it; I think it’s fair to say the latter conversation was far more awkward than the former.)

A few weeks later, in that same upstairs bedroom, I announced to my husband my plan to essentially give the house to Melissa and her children and move with my children more than an hour away, in order for her teenagers to have the space they needed to finish growing up.

That very day, about 5 years ago, we packed up a single carload and I moved away from my trees and animals and gardens, most of my possessions, my friends and neighbors, and the only home most of my children had ever known.

Gradually, tediously, over months and many many many trips between the two houses, Melissa patiently helped me finish moving out of the house which was now, bewilderingly, hers.  And she made that house her own, changing out the kitchen appliances and paint and window coverings and furniture and animals and gardens to better suit her preferences.  She continued the arduous task of parenting children without their father.  And she got used to being a plural wife.

Melissa has now lived in that house longer than I ever lived in it.

For 5 years, my children have had just one parent half the time.  I tell you, it sure is a special treat for the kids when Baba walks in that front door after they’ve been stuck with only me for a couple of days.  Two of our children don’t even remember life before their father was a polygamist.  They don’t remember what it was like to eat dinner and have devotional with him every single night.  They’ve developed habits such as asking me every couple of hours whether Baba will be here today, and writing things down they don’t want to forget to tell him.

For 5 years, my husband has had more than one carpool to get to his job.  (It’s very confusing for his fellow carpoolers.)  He’s had multiple houses and yards to maintain.  He’s been forced to have duplicates of numerous things (including cars, lawn mowers, and property tax bills) so he can frequently seesaw between his two domiciles.  And I can’t even count the number of times he’s needed something but has turned up empty-handed because the tool or other item was in a different county.  He’s been like an unlucky stepchild, constantly going back-and-forth between two houses.

Over the last 5 years, all of us have had more difficulties than I care to list right now.  We’ve also had a lot of personal growth and character-building, but I’ll save that for another time.  I’d rather get to the good news.

For 5 years, Melissa has been finishing the job of turning children into adults.  Her youngest is now 18 years old.  He recently graduated from high school and is launching out on his own.

We are all ready for a big life change.

Melissa’s time in my old house is coming to a close.

Tomorrow my sisterwife finally moves in with me. 

Well, sort of.  I live in a house with several separate apartments, all connected on the inside.  Melissa and I will live together, but each of us will have our own part of the house, our own front door, our own master bedroom, our own kitchen.

Our husband will no longer need duplicates of so many things.  He will get to come home to his entire family every evening.  The children will get to see their Baba and their other mother daily.  Melissa will have to do a lot less driving.  And she and I get to begin a new phase of our relationship.

I can’t wait to see what happens next.

Adonijah Foster

My heart goes out to the Fosters as tragedy struck their family today.  Enoch and Lillian’s house caught on fire and her 2-year-old son Adonijah (the one Lillian gave birth to in the first episode of the show Three Wives, One Husband) was badly burned and he died.

Enoch and Catrina’s 17-year-old daughter Cherish is in the hospital with smoke inhalation.  Lillian is understandably in shock and keeps passing out and is going to the hospital.

A GoFundMe page has been set up for the funeral expenses.  https://www.gofundme.com/baby-fosters-funeral

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I wish Lillian could wake up from her nightmare and hold her baby again.  Sometimes this life seems so cruel.

Are polygamists creeps?

When I first heard about Joe Darger and his 3 wives, my immediate reaction was, “He has 3 wives? What a creep!”

That reaction seems comical now. At the time, I didn’t know any polygamists in person. I assumed if a man has several wives that he must be a controlling jerk who likes to get served by lots of women.

At some point I realized how illogical that thinking was.

If several independent, intelligent, free-thinking women all choose to get married and stay married to the same man, that should actually make me think, “Wow! He must be an amazing man for so many women to want to be married to him! He must be a remarkable husband to be able to keep that many women happy!”

I’m not speaking of institutionalized underage marriages that are compelled by the cult leadership. I’m talking about the situation in which a single woman who has freedom makes the decision to marry and stay married to a man with plural wives.

Nowadays my thinking is very different than it used to be. Why would multiple women choose to be married to a creep? No, if a man successfully keeps more than one woman satisfied, he must be an extraordinary man, and he very likely works hard to serve his wives.

Welcoming a sister wife: Two different ways

Note from the blog owner: minnearminne is a new contributor to the blog, and this is her first post.

Since this article is specific to the two different ways things worked out for bringing and welcoming a new wife into the family, I will try to leave out too many details even though it will be hard.

Before I get started please keep in mind that, from a 1st wife’s perspective (well, mine I guess), we are giving part of our lives not just our stuff.  Yes.  I said giving.  Some may seem expected and small while others rather significant depending on your point of view.

I feel like I should mention that the 2nd wife and I were going to welcome the 3rd wife in together but just a few weeks before, she bailed.  I love her dearly and it was really hard.   I think I know it was because of the pressures of bringing a new wife in, the teens were not happy and I think she caved.  She would not give a reason so I don’t know for sure.  No. I don’t have resentment toward the new wife because… if she wouldn’t have come then the other one would have stayed.  People have asked that so I thought I would just mention it now.  Another thing that might be important is that both were mainstream LDS but had gained a testimony of plural marriage.  This was helpful because we all came from similar backgrounds.

Pre-discussions and Time Before

The FIRST time we spent some time talking and discussed the “27 Rules of Celestial Marriage” by Orson Pratt and seemed to agree on most things.  We spent a lot of time together as a family rather than one-on-one time.  Maybe that’s because we had kids that were about the same age so it was easier and more fun.  When we went to these activities, we had to take two cars and she insisted to ride with me and explained that she didn’t want anything to do with the relationship if she didn’t have one with me.  I liked that and it made me feel relieved, of course.  It’s important for a 1st wife to know the new wife is giving some thought to the existing wife or wives.

With the SECOND, I had a few discussions with her but mostly testimony and personality traits etc.  No logistics whatsoever were discussed.  However, we did talk about how, if the husband has the final say, there will be fewer problems.  While I agree with this idea wholeheartedly, I have seen it be used as a tool for one wife to actually rule the family through her persuasive (others would use the word manipulative) power over the husband—unbeknownst to the husband.

We didn’t spend much time all together.  The husband spent the most time with her while I held down the fort.   This was not because the husband and I didn’t try.  I tried to instigate outings but there just wasn’t the interest.  In fact, I invited her to come to the ice cream shop because I had a buy-one-get-one-free coupon and I was glad she accepted.  But, when it came right down to it (the husband arrived), she decided to stay and asked me to bring hers back.  Well, that was a devastating and blow and I realized she was what I call a “multiple monogamist” at heart.

Recap:  The FIRST time was good because we got to know each other as a family but also as individuals.  That was also bad because she expressed feelings that the husband didn’t really get to know her and she him.  I took it at face value so when the SECOND time came around, I went overboard the other way—even with living space and time after marriage.  I can see how that would trade new problems for the old but I couldn’t see it at the time.  The FIRST definitely had more value for the whole.  We had figured out how to talk to each other and made decisions together and then brought them to the husband to add and/or take away.  It worked out very nicely and saved time and grief for him.

Living Space

In the FIRST experience we were not in a position to pay for an apartment and neither was she.  She didn’t have a job or a car and had two little kids.  So, we had a mother-in-law outbuilding that we refinanced our house to fix up.  It added about seven years and $250 per month to our mortgage but we ALL felt it was the best arrangement.  It worked well as the husband got to spend time with all the kids and wives when he got home from work.  We were able to eat together, etc.   We just alternated nights and it worked out great.  It wasn’t but a couple of months, though, that her ex found out about her lifestyle and was threatening custody so she had to get an apartment.  This caused some rifts and it didn’t help that the time and money was stretched thin.  After she moved, she felt that the husband didn’t feel at home at her place, so she started moving some of his things that he cherished over to her apartment; things like books and camping stuff.   He was uncomfortable with this.  He DID indeed feel the family’s home was where we had originally talked about and that was all together.  We still alternated nights but it was really hard because I couldn’t get a hold of him sometimes and had to drive 20 minutes when there was something pressing to talk to him about and vice versa. Ugh…living that far from each other definitely put a strain on things.

The SECOND time we didn’t really discuss living arrangements because the plan was she was going to live in the apartment below the second wife but, of course that fell through at the last minute, so I decided to move a few of my things out to the mother-in-law apartment while they were gone for a week on their honeymoon.  This was as a gesture so it would be known I was willing to move out there and also because there wouldn’t be much time when they got back. It had been winterized so it would only be a bedroom until summer.  When they got home, the husband said he thought it would be best if she had her own space without the kids running around but she refused to have her room out there so she took the master bedroom in the house and I went out there.  We shared a kitchen and the rest of the living space.  Some of my children moved out with me when summer came.

Time

I was still feeling bad about the statement the first one said about feeling like she didn’t get to know the husband and he didn’t feel at home with her so I thought maybe I would take less time with the husband.  Instead of alternating equally and every night, I offered to have ¼ of the time.  She accepted without hesitation.  We shared dinner responsibilities every other day but soon changed to trading off every week.  We suddenly got new rules for our home and new places for things. I don’t know what that tells you, but it tells me that my husband was being influenced by and trying to please her or something because he never imposed new rules on the family like that before.  This did not go over very well with me or the kids.  If you read the Daniel and the Lion’s Den story, you will see this same type of thing.

Recap

The FIRST time was very good as we had our own space but also had closeness.  There were a few changes to the place she did that I thought were stepping over the bounds but we always worked them out.  The real problems didn’t start until she had to move away.  The SECOND time was okay but there was a constant overstepping of bounds, at least from my perspective.  No matter how good an idea or change is, if it’s too soon or too overbearing, it’s not going to go over very well.  The main problem was that she kept telling me that she already talked to the husband and he gave his approval and, to her, that’s all that mattered.  All she had to do was talk to him and I was forced.  I think a detail is necessary to fully understand the 1st wife’s point of view. The detail I have chosen (because it was one that didn’t affect the kids and is sort of petty) to share is about the placement of the spatulas and ladles, etc.  You know…some people have them in a canister on the counter near the stove for convenience and others keep them in a drawer.  I could see how convenient it was to have them on the counter and didn’t mind the clutter look.  But, I had tried many ways to do things in the house over the years and found, in this instance, keeping them in the drawer was best because living in the country brought more flies than living in the city.  The utensils would often have fly specks on them so I it was cleaner and less gross if we kept them in the drawer.  I explained this and voiced my disappointment that she took it upon herself to go buy a canister:  First, because I already had one and Second, because there was no discussion or asking about whether I had tried it before and if I had, why I didn’t do it or like it.  Anyway, the resolve was that she promised to wash, with soap, the utensils before using them on any food that we would be eating.  This caused problems because I and the kids saw many instances that this was not happening.  It may seem like a petty thing but it’s not necessarily about the placement.  It’s more about…if the respect is not there to talk about something like that, what other things can happen due to lack of respect?  Having respect and interest in the wife as much as the husband is so important but sometimes, the husband and some wives get it in their heads that if every decision and problem goes through the husband and he has the only say then all will be well.  Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time because the squeaky wheel gets the grease and sometimes the husband feels he has to cater to one or the other for various reasons.  If decisions are based on logic and right vs. wrong and not by the fear of consequences (typically a wife being upset), then the wives will have more respect for the husband and be more obedient.